Ann Corkery, who directs philanthropy at Security National Servicing Corporation, introduced Governor Romney as he received the Canterbury Award from the Becket Fund.
As it turned out, the governor’s speech of December 6th last year was the high point of the entire primary season. It was one of those moments when a serious thought managed to break through the noise. What left an impression was not just the power of the words, but also the qualities of the man, and of the wife beside him.
One quality of note is surely their forbearance, at that moment and throughout the campaign. If you wonder exactly what it was like for Catholics, in other places and other times, Mitt and Ann could share some details from their own experience. At every turn, they had to explain their faith — to defend the good and venerable teachings of the Mormon Church. They were constantly called to account, even by people not usually interested in spiritual matters … and by others with creeds and churches of their own, but a lot less to show for it than Mitt and Ann Romney.
The reality is that when we meet people of their quality, the most relevant questions are the ones we ask ourselves — about our own beliefs … and whether we reflect nearly as well on our churches as they do on theirs. Yet somehow the governor always remained calm and patient. And this was not just a political instinct. It was the humility of the man, a trait that has somehow survived all his success. Listening to his remarks in College Station, Texas, it wasn’t hard to picture the young missionary who years before has gone door to door in Paris, explaining his beliefs and offering the hope of a better way.
This year the Becket Fund is honored to bestow Governor and Mrs. Mitt Romney with its highest honor, the Canterbury Medal, for their role in expanding the free expression of religious faith in the public square. Each year the Becket Fund awards the Canterbury Medal to someone who has "resolutely refused to render unto Caesar that which is God's."
The governor's extraordinary speech on the role of religion in political life was an important contribution to religious liberty and the national political discourse during this election season. Both Governor and Mrs. Romney have demonstrated exemplary poise and dignity in the face of all manner of provocations aimed at their faith. For these reasons and more, The Becket Fund is delighted to present the Romneys with the Canterbury Medal at this year's dinner.
The award will be presented Thursday, May 8, 2008 at The Metropolitan Club (One East 60th Street, New York City) The reception is at 6:30pm, with dinner to follow. Black Tie. To purchase a table or tickets, contact Ashley Samelson at asamelson@becketfund.org.
I agree with Justin...to a point. Obama's speech was a rhetorical gem. It flowed naturally from one topic to the next and made a compelling case for his solutions. I was just left with one question after listening:
So what?
If the problem that Obama was confronting, and the need for the speech, had been general racism or discrimination, this would have been a masterful discourse. However, in my view, the problem was not generalized racism, but Obama's particular association with an extremist. It was the statements by one of Obama's closest confidants for the last 20 years that are particularly at odds with the premise for Obama's campaign. Thus, in addressing race rather than his voluntary association, Obama addressed an issue tangential to the reason for the controversy.
The big problem with his speech is that he either gave generalized denunciations to Wright's statements and then made the moral equivalence argument in several ways: equating non-family members to family members, saying all religious leaders make controversial statements, implying that all controversies are equal, etc. These excuses for his continuing association with Wright, in spite of the problems it has caused, makes me question his judgment more fully.
Don't get me wrong, Obama's campaign was smart in pivoting from Obama's particular associations to racism generally. The news, at least that I've seen, has been gushing over his speech about race and have generally forgotten why he needed to give the speech at all. Wright is glossed over and forgotten as the stations will likely do a week's worth of stories about race in America.
I have to tell you... I found the speech very engaging and well crafted. We dismiss it blithely at our peril.
Don't get me wrong, there was plenty for conservatives to object to... but the argument which Obama framed up created a compelling narrative (especially during the first half of the speech). Obama's strong condemnation of Rev. Wright coupled with his refusal to cut off his pastor cold turkey cuts a very natural path between the black community looking for vindication and conservative critics looking to catch him in hypocrisy.
If I had to regurgitate it, this is what I heard: "This is the reality of what many blacks believe in America, I don't believe it, but you can't reach out to this group by ignoring them or lambasting them outright. Likewise, my fellow blacks need to condemn the ugly vitriol against whites and fess up the to their own messes. America is full of these contradictions. It makes us stronger when we deal with it."
"Contradictions" is a term that many people can relate to.
As others have noted, the last part of the speech was a liberal boilerplate of good intentions. No surprise there. But the overall tenor of the venue was positive in nature and disarming in effect.
I mean, ask yourself. What was his main goal going in? Dissolve the Wright issue and move it into the win column. Did he accomplish that? I think he did.
I find it interesting that Barack Obama’s continuing difficulties because of Jeremiah Wright are being framed in the context of two things it is definitely not about: race and religion.
This controversy is not about race. If anyone made the claim, and I have yet to hear it, that Obama is being criticized because of his race they are wrong. It is not the color of Obama’s or Wright’s skin that is the subject of controversy. No rational person would equate Wright’s anti-Americanism with the color of his skin, unless we are to believe that skin color determines nationalistic attitudes (which is patently absurd). It is Wright's inflamatory statements themselves that have engendered controversy and not his skin color. Perhaps Wright would say the two are inseperable, but, again, skin color does not determine the content of character. Thus, those who frame the controversy in the context of race are not navigating the facts, but are pushing a headline that is detached from the story.
Likewise, the controversy is not about religion. Wright’s comments are not theological, but are political. It is not the tenets of Obama’s faith that are in question. No one is asking about his belief in God or his belief in the divinity of Christ or any other doctrinal question. No one has suggested that Obama should be disqualified because of his beliefs in spiritual matters. This is distinct from Mitt Romney’s experience where it was doctrinal differences over such things as the nature of God or post-mortal life that were the subject of controversy. Wright’s statements cannot be resolved by resort to religious sources. The slight convergence with religion that this controversy has is because of Wright’s title and the location of the remarks. Wright is a pastor and the remarks were given in a Church. Those facts alone do not make the controversy about religion. The controversy is about religion only insomuch as Obama proclaims religious belief in the statements that Wright made, something that Obama seems unlikely to do.
One more reason why Mitt's early exit was so monumental...not only did it keep this nonsense from happening in our party, but it also accentuated all of this happening in the Democrat party. With Hillary and Obama getting at each other's throats on a daily basis, we see who they really are and it makes a much clearer case for voting for McCain.
Obama has a hard time making the case that he's been a victim of discrimination. He actually had a fairly privledged up bringing which is why a lot of people say he isn't black enough.This speech was fence straddling all the way. He needed to keep the black voters on board which he did by invoking that slavery is the reason for their plight.Bridging the racial divide is a platitute to white liberals.The old crumbling schools thing is just another reinforcement of black victimzation which most people are tired of hearing about.He would have gotten a lot more milage out of the speech if he talked about personal responsibilty and two parent families like his.To downplay Wrights comments saying that whites sit around thier kitchen tables condeming blacks was also a cop out and liberal excuse making. I also wonder if Obama has ever benefitted from affirmative action and what his current views are on it.
Doesn't this argument over Obama's religiosity and the venom spewed by his pastor really expose how overblown Mitt's religious beliefs were? Maybe this helps innoculate Mitt against attacks on his religion down the road. Hopefully after he gets the VP nom:>
I agree that Obama has once again squandered a perfect opportunity for him to endear himself to America. There would not have been any question about the nominee would be if he could have answered the Spitzer question (not the new one, the old one, rememeber driver licences?). After two weeks of condemning Hillary over her answer to that question, when he was posed with the same question he looked like a deer in headlights. Now after condemning Hillary and Bill for weeks of playing the race card and doing nothing but bringing hate to the table, Barack has decided to go for the "Every black church hates, my white grandma uses the n-word" route? REALLY?.
It seems like America is desperate for a leader and will give the jobs of leadership to anyone who shows a semblence of ability but no one seems to want the jobs. I hope that Mitt does get the nod and that he can help us do what needs to be done.
Obama has made it this far because the media has given Obama a free pass (too busy attacking Mitt and others) and they have done their best to continue to help him to the White House. Even now, the media is praising Obama for addressing the race issue head on. Are people being sucked in by this garbage? Unfortunately they are.
This is not just one particular sermon by Mr. Wright (does not deserve the title “Rev.”) and the Obamas have been part of his flock for 20 years??!!! I gave Michelle Obama the benefit of the doubt when she said the “first time in my life I’m proud of America” bit. But now it’s all starting to make sense. Whether they will admit to it or not, the Obamas have been influenced by this hatefilled man. How Mr Wright can profess to follow the teaching of Christ is laughable if it weren’t so sad. Now we know what kind of change Obama wants to bring to this country.
So tell me, all you rich white men who have endorsed Obama (that includes the Kennedys and the Hollywood elite of course), how do you feel about your choice now?
As I surveyed the campaign coverage of post-Iowa, mid-Wyoming, and pre-New Hampshire I found pretty much a mixed bag. Nobody really knows what’s going to happen, but everyone’s willing to hazard a guess.
Then I happened upon Michael Medved’s latest Townhall column and I started to get just a little miffed. I don’t really have an opinion on Medved – I’ve never really listened to his show, I don’t read his stuff and my only exposure to him has been via Blogfather Hugh’s radio show. Medved has now come out as a McCain backer, but his latest diatribe will most likely find its way to Team Huck for distribution.
Medved would have you believe there is no anti-Mormon bigotry behind Huck’s success in Iowa and in other evangelical heavy states. I’m not going to take Medved’s data apart here, simply because its not necessary to prove my point. I’d simply like to pose a question which turn’s Medved’s logic on it’s head:
But for religion, where would the race stand today?
But for religion, Mike Huckabee would be lagging back in single digit polling no matter what state he ran in. He’d be rightly labeled as a populist tax and spend governor of a state that – were it not for its alphabetical ranking – most Americans would never have heard about. His attitude toward and record on crime – demonstrated by his seemingly endless string of pardons – would subject him to an endless barrage of questions and commentary which would subsequently consign his campaign to the Dukakis Memorial Dust Bin. His Carter-esque foreign policy ideas would lead most responsible Republicans to run screaming from the room – to say nothing of his economic ideals which appeal to the masses but portend fiscal danger and disaster should they ever actually be implemented.
So what, pray tell, is Huck’s appeal? He plays the religion card and manages to convince some Iowans that he’s one of them. He brands himself as the “Christian Leader” thereby calling into question the religiosity of every other candidate – a not-at-all veiled jab at Mitt Romney. He then takes an even less-veiled broadside at Mitt specifically and Mormonism in general with his throwaway line to the New York Times Magazine specifically designed to put religious and not political differences on the front page – again.
While Huck may have apologized for that insult, and Mitt may have accepted said apology, the intent was clear. No, I don’t buy Huck’s explanation and I don’t accept his apology. After so many years at the pulpit, Huck knew exactly what he was saying and the publicity and religious furor it would generate. Huck’s “apology” is a bout as valid as Typhoid Mary’s would have been weeks after she came to town.
In short, but for religion, Huck would already be an also-ran.
On the other side of the spectrum you find Mitt Romney. Here is an exceptionally accomplished man – by any yardstick you choose to measure him. He has succeeded at nearly everything he’s ever even thought of attempting – be it professional, personal, or political. When the chips were down and conventional wisdom said it couldn’t be done, somebody called Mitt and the impossible got done.
Mitt has made over a quarter-billion dollars for himself, and untold billions for others in the private sector. Unlike any other candidate, he has created and saved untold millions of jobs for Americans. He enjoys new challenges, so he took it upon himself to save the 2002 Olympics and then serve his state. Having given Uncle Ted the race of his life and not being stymied by defeat he took a shot at the Governor’s chair and turned a state around. Most people would think Mitt had done enough and deserved a well earned early retirement.
In any other universe, Mitt would be so far beyond any other candidate – Democrat or Republican – this race would all but be over. He personifies the all American family man – married to the same woman for nearly four decades with five strapping sons all successful on their own merits. Norman Rockwell couldn’t have painted a better picture of a presidential candidate.
And yes, in case you were wondering, my picture does include all Mitt’s rightward shifts on the issues he takes hammers on. It wouldn’t matter – and in reality it doesn’t matter.
But for religion, Mitt would all but be sworn in. Were he Baptist, Presbyterian, Unitarian, Catholic, or Methodist the only questions in this campaign would be aimed at policy. But Mitt is Mormon, and evidently that changes the rules set down by over 200 years of American political tradition.
Were there no Mormon Question, the media might have to focus on issues that really matter rather than the actual location of the Garden of Eden or the actions of Mitt’s long dead relatives. They might actually have to work for a decent newsworthy story.
No matter what Mr. Medved claims, there is an undercurrent of religious bigotry which has and will continue to dog the Romney campaign. Bear in mind with the exception of the occasional reference to “faith”, Mitt has been fairly neutral on the subject of religion. He’s gone to great lengths to avoid bringing religion into a race for a secular office. Never the less, Mitt’s opponents and their surrogates seem to revel in reverting to religion at every opportunity.
What proof do I have of this undercurrent? I won’t bother pointing you to the surrogate blogs filled with a never ending diatribe of combined anti-Mitt and anti-Mormonism. I’ll just point you to Mike Huckabee’s officially sanctioned blog. What you’ll find there is just one example of many I could point you in what is fast becoming little more than a cesspool of anti-Morminism. Spare me the “Huck isn’t responsible for comments” excuse. It’s got his name on it, he’s responsible for it.
I’m not going so far as to blame all the woes of Team Mitt on religious bigotry – I’m not quite that naïve. What I am saying is that Mitt has one hurdle the other candidates are free to bypass – and it makes this campaign race much like Mitt having to run100 yard dash in knee-deep water while his opponents sprint down the track.
Even with that obstacle, Mitt is still running neck and neck with them.
I have been on top of this this issue TrustMitt.org
Shazam, Iowa results are proof positive that inbreeding and frigid temperatures yield irrational decisions. Despite Huckabee’s liberal record, Gomer Pyle charisma, and hate mongering against Mormonism, Huckabee pulls out a victory. Since Huck has no chance of beating Obama in a national election, the people have spoken and they would rather tear The Republican Party up then vote for a viable candidate. Thanks Iowa for splitting the party between social and economic conservatives, leaving us with McCain (who has no money to run a campaign) right before one of the most difficult presidential elections in recent history. If Mitt loses in New Hampshire and Michigan due to the blow in Iowa I will be obligated to vote for Obama in retaliation for Iowa's bigotry. TrustMitt.org
As I’ve browsed the blogosphere and listening to just a little talk radio today, a few questions keep popping up from reporters, pundits, and the general public. These are a significant minority of the overall reactions. Mostly they sound something like this: How can Romney invoke his faith and not discuss the details? How can he claim that America wants a man of faith, yet not any particular faith? How can Romney assert that faith is important in a secular nation?
One of fundamental values upon which our constitution is built is balance: balance between federal and state governments, between branches of government, between the citizens and the government, etc. We use several different phrases to describe this balance (federalism, separation of powers, etc.), but the underlying premise is the same. We want a government with enough power to enforce the laws, but not to tyrannize its citizens. We want a strong central government, but not complete or even significant concentrations of power.
All of these require balancing by embracing both values without rejecting either. It is sometimes difficult to find the precise balance, but that’s what we have to do. Through experience and maturity we increase our ability to find this balance and approach new situations.
Such is the case with religion in the United States. The Constitution specifically eschews the enshrinement of a national religion or religious test for office. On the other hand, the Constitution does not decry the practice of religion. Thus, we have a nation of religion without a national religion. The Constitution only sets the framework from which we begin to balance the two competing values. However, the wisdom of this framework is self-evident.
Taking either value to its logical extreme shows the fallacy of holding too tightly to one value at the expense of the other. There is no more wisdom in a theocratic Iran than an atheistic Soviet Union (back when it was such). But of course Mitt explained all this in his speech.
The questions asked above similarly seek for a logical extreme to facets of the religion question. They conclude that if Romney’s religion is known and going to play a role in his politics, he must fully explain it. However, this type of extremism is at odds with the types of balancing discussed above. The question, then, is what is the proper balance? How do we value the competing concerns of maintaining a proper distance from religion in politics without removing it from that sphere? Mitt has struck a balance as evidenced in his speech. He embraces religion and religious people, but will not exalt that religion to dominate his political life. Thus, it is important to be aware that he is religious while it is the specifics of his religion are not important. This is a balance.
Would other people have struck a different balance? Certainly. JFK’s speech concerned the almost complete rejection of religion in politics. Alternatively, former candidates like Pat Robertson would have exalted religion as the defining characteristic of their governance. Experience has proven to us that neither extreme is desirable. Where should the balance be struck? That’s an individual question and reasonable people can disagree. However, the extremist questions listed above are outside that range of reasonable disagreement. They exhibit a rejection of one value or another on the role of religion in the public sphere.
The most bizarre thing I keep hearing on tv and radio is the number of times he said, "Mormon", "Christian", "Muslim", etc. What a strange thing to harp on since it has absolutely nothing to do with the substance of the speech. It's a complete distraction from what really matters.
The Romney speech will probably be broadcast on many of the major cable news channels. You can also watch it live streaming on http://www.mittromney.com.
Alternately, if you're on the road you can call in for the audio:
Phone Number For Listen-Only Program Feed: 866-866-2244 Participant Code: 9411758
Of course, be sure you tune in to MyManMitt.com for live coverage of the event.
I'm very, very nervous about this speech. Sometimes I see it as a no-win situation. Other times I envision Mitt "hitting one out of the park." I hope he does well.
It’s too late — the governor and his faith have our attention. For better or worse, Mormonism is on the public table. The “good news” part, for Romney, is that the public interest signifies how important he has become in the presidential sweeps. Romney leads in Iowa and New Hampshire, and he is now being taken seriously as a prospective nominee. The “bad news” part is that, despite Romney’s desire to think only the best of his fellow citizens — to think that no one would disqualify a person merely because of faith, 218 years after the promise of religious freedom in the First Amendment — such a vision of religious freedom is not yet a reality.
I personally disagree with Kmiec, but he makes a convincing case. I think that there is little to gain from such a speech. It will undoubtedly increase media attention on the divide between Mormons and other Christians. This does Romney little good and likely will do him much harm. I think the campaign has taken the right steps regarding religion, letting endorsements and endorsers make the case to voters. This is one of those areas where I think that actions (particularly those of evnagelical endorsers) speak louder than any words that Romney could utter.
Perhaps I'm wrong? Apparently a smart guy, and Romney supporter, like Kmiec thinks so.
I think you are right Kyle. I can see why people might think that it would be necessary, but I think it would do more harm then good in the long run. We don't want to get into a doctrinal debate with evangelicals, as we already know there are deep divides. All it would do is keep up the stereotype that evangelicals are intolerant and that Mormons are crazy (neither of which is actually true)
Jonathan Chait, that lover of the religious right, has a new article over at TNR, essentially proclaiming discrimination against Mitt Romney and his Mormonism to be the fault of the right's embrace of religion in politics. He concludes:
Not long ago, John McCain declared that, "since this nation was founded primarily on Christian principles ... personally, I prefer someone who I know has a solid grounding in my faith." GOP Representatives Virgil Goode and Bill Sali, and conservative talk show host Dennis Prager, have railed against Muslims and Hindus offering their own prayers in Congress. I'm sure most advocates of faith-based politics would abhor this sort of discrimination. But it's really just the natural conclusion from the premise of faith-based politics: If it makes sense to support public figures because they share our religious beliefs, then it also makes sense to oppose public figures who don't.
Of course Chait misses many points, but, in particular, misses the sophistication of religious voters. Beyond the extreme views of Goode and Sali and the like, religious voters have been extremely tolerant of people of other faiths. Why else would religious voters back such a wide ranging field of presidential candidates whose religious backgrounds couldn't be more different? The reason is that religious voters endorse people of religion, not because of simplistic identity politics, but because of what a faith tells the voter about that person. It's a level of sophistication removed from the blunt treatment that Chait gives religious voters.
Chait, unfortunately, looks at religious voters as liberals look at any other demographic: monolithic and simple-minded, voting for someone because of association with that group. Blacks vote for blacks. Hispanics for hispanics. Women for women. This is not, however, how religious voters behave (and I would argue most groups don't behave that way, but I digress). Religious voters take a person's religion as only an indication of that person's character. It tells them something about faith in the face of the unknown, about commitment to shared values, and about service to one's neighbor, among other things. None of these things are religion specific, nor do they facilitate identity politics.
So, what does this have to do with Mitt Romney, the subject of this blog? Chait would have it mean that Romney's nomination exposes the hipocracy of the religious right. I, however, see it differently. This is the first time that voters have been confronted with the implications of Mormonism. Particularly with respect to those attributes that Mormonism imbues in its followers, voters are asking themselves what it is that Mormonism means to Mitt Romney's faith in the face of the unknown, his committment to shared values, and about service to his neighbor, among other things. Normally these questions are easily answered as voters are familiar with evangelical protestants, Methodists, Baptists, and Catholics and what those religions mean to character and values. The unfamiliar Mormonism warrants additional investigation, but voters are drawing conclusions based on the candidate. The results have been somewhat mixed (some voters prefering familiarity), but probably better than most would have suspected. This is to be expected given the sophistication of religious voters. Otherwise, denominations would have quickly lined up behind the candidate of their religion. Nothing so simplistic has occured, further refuting Chait's argument.
Look for the continued sophistication of religious voters, who are able to look beyond the simple label that religion serves for Chait, and will vote for Mitt.
While this article first appeared Thursday, October 04, 2007 in Analecta Politica (www.howellunc.townhall.com) I am compelled to run it again. After all Paragraph 3, Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution means nothing to the MSM, or to Chris Matthews, or to the pathetic Keith Olbermann, or to Romney’s rivals.
Paragraph 3, Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution reads, “. . . all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” - emphasis added.
The Speech, the Speech! Mr. Romney, My Kingdom for the Speech! Thursday, October 04, 2007
Whew, let’s all just calm down. There is no reason for Romney’s “JFK” religion speech. Not yet. While liberal pundits, the media, and a few Giulianiacs (read Novak) in New York are fixated on Romney’s religion, very few national evangelical leaders oppose Romney on religious grounds. For obvious reasons Catholic and Jewish leaders are rather adamant that there be no religious issue concerning Romney and the 2008 presidential race. The loudest objections come from the left. Jacob Weisberg, editor of Slate, said, "Romney's religion will become an issue with moderate and secular voters - and rightly so." His justification comes from a rather strained reasoning that objecting to one’s “religious beliefs is not the same thing as prejudice based on religious heritage . . .” What? Late last year Romney met with the prominent evangelical leaders. Oh, to have been a fly on that wall! From the few remarks made by some of the attendees, that meeting must have gone quite well. Says Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, "Evangelicals know that they're not electing a theologian in chief, but a commander in chief. If they agree with Romney on social issues, his Mormonism won't be a hindrance . . ." And Jerry Falwell, who has often spoken in unflattering terms about Mormons said, "There's no question that there are strong feelings about Mormonism. But we're not electing a Sunday school teacher; we're electing a president. I do not believe his church affiliation will hinder his being a viable candidate among evangelicals." So just who are these 24 percent of Americans (not 29 percent as reported by Novak.) who would not vote for a Mormon? see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21036143/site/newsweek/ Well, certainly many are liberal and/or secular. In the same poll 14 percent said they would not vote for a woman, 64 percent said no to an Atheist. Even more telling is what Novak did not reveal. In the same poll 68 percent of Americans said they had a favorable opinion of Mitt Romney while only 13 percent did not. Gee, I wonder what Hillary’s numbers would be. So everybody, just take a deep breath. After Mitt has secured the nomination there will be plenty of time for The Speech.
Romney is very impressive. Even when he doesn't know he's being taped. He's very classy.
darthmills says: wow, first time i have seen mitt get upset. refreshing. Go get em mitt! President Romney 08!!
5M1L3 says: I wonder if all the people who complained that Mitt Romney's clips were to short will appreciate the length of this video? I do like the candid, off the air part, at the end.
SCOTTMSTER says: I feel Jan Mickelson had a pre-planned agenda for Mitt Romney to explain his views on his LDS religion and make his religion an issue in his run for the presidency. It however turned into a GREAT off air and genuine perspective of how Mitt views his moral and religious convictions, how those morals and views intertwine to make him what he is and yet separate as a President. Mitt wins again, what a classy Presidential candidate. Scott Rasmussen Gilbert. Az.
This is why there is no positive reason to give "the speech". People feel that reading one blurb about an issue they believe is Church doctrine trumps a person who has been a lifelong member, a bishop,and stake president. Anything he says is not going to change the mind of people like this because they are under the false assumption that we are all mindless sheep who never question, never think for ourselves. Let me tell you, sitting in Church meetings for three hours every Sunday, studying for an hour every day you go to high school, and taking several religion classes during college do give you countless hours to question, observe, and aply the principles our Church espouses. So for those out there who want to tell Members of the Church of Latterday Saints what we do and don't believe, remember, don't ask the question if you do not want to hear the answer.
Well said Kim. With few exceptions (scholars who devote years to the study of a particular religion), those who are convinced they better understand a religion than those who participate in that religion are delusional. It is a sign of an uneducated and egotistical mind.
Mickelson is a jerk. Romney did a great job in containing himself with this idiot. If I were Mitt I would not meet with this guy again. He's more interested in having the public hear him than having them hear Romney. Showing the off the air conversation was very smart on your part. Mitt handled himself superbly. Jeff Bookman
Romney has a clear understanding of his religion, and the separation of church and state. Mickelson reads a paragraph on the Mormon church and thinks he's an expert. Once again, Romney handles himself with reasonableness and class. He is always on -- sharp as a tack.
The very simple truth of the matter is if the method by which Mitt worshiped Jesus Christ where different, he would be the clear front runner. ----- God help us all. --- How is this any better than the Sunnis and the Shias?????
There are several articles on related topics out there:
Newsmax has a nice article by Ronald Kessler about the recent media coverage and the MSM’s obsession with Romney’s religion: Instead of focusing on [Romney’s accomplishments], Time devotes almost 40 percent of its coverage of Romney to his religion and the question of whether Evangelicals will vote for a Mormon. Yet, as Time quotes Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's public-policy arm, "Southern Baptists understand they are voting for a commander in chief, not a theologian in chief."
An editorial at the Coloradoan.com says why editorialist Joseph Haynie says we should look beyond the religion issue. The opening line sums it up nicely: Too much of a fuss is being made about Mitt Romney's Mormonism and not enough is being said about the man's politics, or, more importantly, his character.
Finally, David Brody at CBN posts a letter of a person who would rather vote for another candidate just to spite the LDS Church: “It finally dawned on me a couple of weekends ago why I’m against Mitt Romney and why I’d not vote for him. It’s not because he is a Mormon. It’s because it gives legitimacy to the LDS Churches drive to be accepted as a Christian group.” To be fair, Brody also includes another email from a person with a much better perspective: “The Romney candidacy is bringing bigots out of the woodwork, and I don't think there are really that many of them. I believe and hope that most conservatives are able to rise above religious differences and vote for the best man on his merits. And so far, he is beginning to look like that man.”
It’s good to see that the majority of people and, increasingly, media outlets have come to embrace Romney’s truism that when voting for President, the shared values are more important than a shared theology. The type of group prejudice portrayed by the one Brody letter is the type of thing we would hope to eliminate for all groups. It just goes to show the wisdom of the Constitution which strictly forbids that type of thinking, portrayed by such a small segment of society.
I practice no religion but belong to a Catholic family.
The bigots on the right of the political spectrum are SHOCKING ME! It also makes me very sad too. On this earth we are supposed to judge each man on HIS WORKS and leave his soul to God. It is very presumptious of these bigots to think they know for a fact that Mormonism is so wrong. Why is it so hard to believe that God might actually APPROVE of the way Mormons live their lives and worship? Why are these bigots so threatened by that? And what if GOD does indeed see Mormons as his children and these so-called Christians are trashing God's Mormon children? The reason we all go to different denominational churches is because we believe differently.
If we want the right to do that we better give Mormons the right to do it.
What if God sent us Mitt Romney because he is the right man for these times and WE REJECTED HIM because of our prejudices and bigotry?
What’s the matter, boys and girls? Slow news cycle? Before people get too wrapped up in this, realize that Ms. Dobner and Mr. Johnson had to dig back to Mitt’s Great Grandfather Miles Park Romney and Great Great Grandfather Parley Pratt to find this information. How many of you (Mormons excluded) can name your Great or Great Great Grandaddy? Do you know anything about them? Are you responsible for their actions?
Get back to me when you can answer those questions. Till then, stuff a sock in it. Yes, I’m a bit perturbed because you don’t have to shake my family tree too hard before the polygamists start falling out. If we’re going to start this with Mitt, then I suggest each presidential candidate submit a seven-generation ancestry chart complete with family history so we can see exactly what his/her ancestors were up to.
As every family tree has some strange branches in it - especially when you look at history through the politically correct lens of today. I think some candidates would be surprised by what's in their tree. Hillary might find her forebearers practiced something worse than polygamy. Some of them were no doubt [gasp] Republicans.
I posted this comment already on this blog, but I want to tie it to this particular post:
I did a bit of background checking on these two AP journalists.
Jennifer actually works out of their Salt Lake City office -- obviously not happy by her LDS surroundings. If you look at her story history, she reports on polygamy all the time. If anyone wants to contact her and call her out on this shameful story, email her at jdobner@ap.org; or call her at (801) 322-3405.
Glen Johnson on the other hand, a known Romney basher, reported from Boston where they are looking for every possible way to smear their former governor. And he is always looking for ways to highlight the other candidates. Take a look at this glowing piece that Johnson did on Obama that doesn’t mention a negative thing in it, and of course doesn’t mention that Obama’s own father had multiple wives - http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/couriernews/news/231641,3_1_EL27_A7OBAMA_S1.article.
The editors and publisher of the Associated Press should be ashamed.
I just don't understand the relevance of what Romney's ancestors did more than 100 years ago. The piece talks about Romney condemning polygamy, but that his great-grandfather had multiple wives? How does the fact that his ancestor practiced polygamy negate Mitt's views on the matter?!? I'm sure that other candidate's ancestor's were slave owners. Does that mean they must condone slavery today, despite what they say? Sheesh! The press is so transparent--and STUPID--sometimes. Like anyone is going to care about this smear piece or give it one ounce of creedence.
It is interesting how much the press is interested in, *golly,* the generations of Romney family...why, not even Lincoln, Washington, or Jefferson get this much attention to family history in the modern press.
Yeah, yeah, anyway...
If it weren't such a veiled hit piece (this is muckraking? This is all they can come up with?), it is interesting to see obscure Mormon history suddenly become so relevant to everything political. You'd think the press was genuinely threatened by Romney's ancestors, but no, they're just scared of Romney and his potential, so they have to create an asinine hit piece.
Also, just to echo the commentary above, Romney wasn't the only person who had polygamist ancestors. See this post about Obama's daddy: http://tinyurl.com/38l6p9
Great editorial! AWESOME! Please post the email address of Johnson if you find it.
Their reporting on this along with all the other "hangerson" is hillarious. Gotta love it.
My grandmother (not Mormon) loved geneology as a hobby. I found out in my youth that I had a horse rustler for a g-g-g-grandfather in Arkansas or some place like that. They hanged the guy --- it is a good thing he had kids first tho.
To 206's point: My personal opinion is that it doesn't matter what the church thinks on this; for Americans and me at least. The most important issue at hand is to get the most qualified and best person in the President's saddle (If that person were a Quaker, I would be doing what I could to help him/her). That person is MR, hands down. I am sure the people who run the Mormon church know what could be coming and are well prepared for it. And I doubt they are complaining about all the free publicity.
His name is George Reynolds, and his case (albeit not completely correct in description on Wikipedia) is a cornerstone of current debate on marriage. My wife is a lifer and I'm a convert (6 years after being married to her from being an Agnostic). It didn't stop me from marrying her - we had common values, end of story.
They (the AP) can't stand a discussion on real issues - sideshow antics are what keep them alive and selling papers.
FWIW for 206: As a second-gen Arizonan, Ev Mecham was perceived as a nut, not for the Mormon angle but because he took a hard line on things rather than lay down like a nice politician.
Mormonism is the most absurd form of Christianity by, say, a million parsecs, and I, personally, am getting tired of American conservatives who believe the American people can be sold a bill of goods on the say-so of well connected (Look at me being influential!) bloggers.
I'll say what no one else will at this point: Mormons are untrustable idiots
and...
Sorry. Truth time. Mitt Romney will never be president. He's a Mormon. Therefore he's a loon, regardless of how blazingly intelligent you have to be to make a half billion dollars in this country. The American people aren't going to buy this particular pig in this particular poke.
Now for an excercise, Lets take out all the times it says Mormon and insert Jew, Muslim or Black. Would this guy still have a blog? You probably would assume he wore a white sheet and hood and rode around on a horse.
Very insightful comments by 206isCancer.com. I agree that if someone thinks Mormonism is a cult, they should not vote for a Mormon, based on the arguments set forth. I think the point of the original post is that the hateful tone of the Instapunk blog lends you to believe that he/she is more of a bigot, rather than having a clearly thought-out rationale for not liking Mormons, and thinking they are distrustful.
In my personal experience, I have found that many people find Mormons to be, on average, more trustful than general public at large. This is more from a business-world perspective. This has come from personal comments made to me by several people over the years.
The truth is, when taken in the context of controlling the country through the political process, Mormon teachings are probably less "cultish" than many other religions. The Mormon Church has never tried, from what I know, to significantly influence the national political process, except when it comes to issues of what are considered moral in nature (abortion, same-sex marriage, etc). In fact, many other churches has been MUCH MORE influential and public in trying to sway the political process.
I know that in many other Christian churches, the Pastors, Priests, and other leaders often preach their political beliefs from the pulpit. They have that right, and I applaud them for that. However, in an LDS church, that would never be condoned. I have seen it happen once or twice, but each time the Bishop immediately (with care and tact) reminded the members that the church does not impose a political doctrine on them, and that they should participate in the political process as they see fit.
The church is often asked to allow buildings to be used for political discussions. These requests are always rejected.
Further, comparing the Mormon "cult" to Heaven's gate, or any other movement is a stretch at best, as we are never administered drugs, never threatened with our lives, never encouraged to isolate ourselves from people of other faiths.
We are however, prompted to do all we can to support the teachings of Jesus Christ, and bring others to a realization that Christ is our personal savior, and only through him can we be saved and return to live for eternity with our Father in Heaven. There are doctrinal differences between Mormons and Other faiths, but this is not the forum to discuss those. What can be said, however, is one doctrine that is NOT true. Mormons are not trying to take over the U.S. by having one of its members run for president. The congress, the senate, the judiciary branch, and all of the American people would never let that happen. And that is the way it should be...the way the constitution set it up to be.
I would challenge Jason to find out more about Mormonism. It is quite evident from his comments, that he has been grossly misinformed. Mormons are indeed Christians, and NOT a cult. When JFK ran for President, did anyone accuse the Catholics of wanting to take over the country? Of course not... Jason is obviously uneducated about Mormonism, and even more obviously full of hate. Mormonism is no threat to this country, but quite the opposite, a great asset.
Jason is not the culprit, it is that punkhead who has thought how knowledgeable he is about Mormonism and unfavorably making side comments of that religion. By the way, as the name implies,... INSTAPUNK, it has a description of a human being who has a brain smaller than the size of an anchovish fish and a behavior fit for mental asylum. What a mess to the normal society!
I think Mormons have nothing to worry about. They get some pretty begrudging backhanded compliments on their defense of theology and history from evangelical scholars who slam their own colleagues' ignorance. Google on:
"Mormon Scholarship, Apologetics, and Evangelical Neglect: Losing the Battle and Not Knowing It?". Trinity Journal Fall '98, p179-205.
Let's move one and figure out how to get this nation back on track. Mitt seems to be the leader everyone can get behind.
I can’t believe the lack of outrage by the mainstream media and other ‘rights’ groups. It is ridiculous that in a politically correct age an obscure "Macaca" comment can derail George Allen, yet all the outright bigotry toward Mitt Romney’s faith goes not only unchecked, but is further perpetuated by media outlets like the New York Times, etc. Unbelievable!
-MR Together, we can find the truth… http://www.mittreport.com
Here's the headline graphic with the caption: "'Her heart responded': Clinton bows her head during the National Prayer Breakfast in Washington last week"
No one has a problem with Hillary's religion, we have a problem when she lies about her religion to get votes. When the Republicans won the house and the senate for the first time ever, her husband lead the charge to show the Democrats are religious too. He said that democrats should go out there and talk about religion more... if you have listened to talk radio at all over the past 10 years you will hear quotes from the left as they have tried to get religion, and you can hear all sorts of awesome quotes from Hillary as she mangles the scriptures... My favorite is the one about the good Samaritans, and how the house bill on immigration would have outlawed the good Samaritan... I don't agree with everything from Ann Colter, but her book does a great job on how Hillary is faking religion in order to get votes...
But none of this has stopped some of the Christian right's most influential power brokers from offering endorsements and strategic help, signaling that Romney is doing more than pandering on abortion and gay marriage. He’s on board to change the courts and their interpretation of the Constitution.
Jay Sekulow, the head of Pat Robertson’s American Center for Law and Justice (ALCJ) and one of the most prominent evangelical figures in the country, has placed his seal of approval on Romney and signed on to advise his campaign. Gary Marx, a former Bush campaign liaison to the evangelical community, is Romney’s Conservative Coalitions Director. Marx also heads up the Judicial Confirmation Network, which last year ran an ad ominously portraying "left-wing extremists" opposing the Alito Supreme Court nomination as supporting legal positions that were antithetical to "the real America."
You see, the "Mormon issue" is overblown. If you still need more evidence, I encourage you to visit Evangelicals for Mitt. What more can be said?
Support Mitt Romney! Donate to Mitt Romney's Presidential Run Today!
Now we're onto the "debate" about Religious Conservatives. The title of this session was "Resolved: Religious Conservatives are Critical to Building a Republican Majority"
The debaters are Ralph Reed (one of the founders of Christian Coalition) and Ryan Sager, the author of The Elephant in the Room.
This is an interesting debate... not calling into question whether or not the Christian base is vital to our coalition (which Sager did not dispute) but rather trying to gauge what elements of the electorate we need to curry favor with. The most prominent issue was same sex marriage, not as a constituency... but as an issue that Sager believes will hurt us in the end.
Sager cites some very stark numbers about who we lost and by how much. Reed, in contrast, cited the absolute lock of activism we have among conservative Christians.
Sager says you have to look at the reality that the issue of homosexuality and immigration is that we don't like it. It's an ugly political reality. Reed counters and says that supporting marriage is not biggotry. Sager clarifies and says he's not saying bigotry.
Reed: People make moral choice with which we disagree because we are in a free society. It's not an issue of heterosexual. It's called America. All we are saying is that the institution should be preserved. The other thing is that we have a council of timidity and retreat. "If it's such a liability why the left has tried to get religion. If imitation is the highest form of flattery...." You can finish the sentence. It's a good argument.
Sager: One tactical point. The reality is that the more they do that the less we can use that as our one of our issues. (See Laura's comments from last night about a
Michael Novak, the moderator, had a great line: Conservatives come in all vintages.
This was an impressive sortie in political discourse using new media as a the medium of choice. As Hugh Hewitt noted:
Romney's push-back at the YouTubing of his '94 debate with ted Kennedy --happening in rapid response fashion-- means an entire news cycle on a somewhat significant story has played out before even one newspaper reported it, with the anti-Romney forces (clearly worried about the big $ Monday and the deMint Tuesday) trying to put a stick in the spokes, and Romney's team finding a way to knock it down in the same cycle. here
In other news the new media stories describe advertising on blogs. This from MediaPost:
Gov. Mitt Romney, who announced his presidential exploratory committee last week, also ran a series of blog ads on right- and libertarian-leaning blogs, including OutsideTheBeltway.com, RightWingNews.com, the Townhall.com blog network, and Powerline.com. Romney's spokesman, Kevin Madden, said the candidate intends to run an "aggressive, innovative and integrated campaign" that will include search marketing.
Madden said that Romney hopes the blog ads will reach the most influential voters. "The effort is driven by our recognition of a very unique and motivated audience among New Media devotees," he said. "Our blog ads help reach this audience and drive traffic to our mittromney.com website and provide more information about Mitt Romney, his campaign, his ideas and how they can then in turn join our effort."
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