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Wednesday, December 19, 2007
posted by Kyle Hampton | 11:46 PM | permalink
I had so many comments on my Fair Tax post that I wanted to respond to some of the points made:

First, several people made the point that Europe has a Value Added Tax (VAT) that is more than the 10% figure that I quoted. All of the research that I read made a distinction between the VAT and a national retail sales tax like the Fair Tax. This distinction is based on the mechanics of the tax. The value added tax looks at what a firm adds to the value of a product where a national sales tax is an excise tax levied at the point of sale. The end result looks similar because the VAT is passed on to the consumer. However, the VAT requires firms to report the value added at each stage of production. A national retail sales tax does not require any such reporting other than that the national rate has been applied. The figure I used looked just at those countries using a national retail sales tax and did not include those countries using a VAT.

Second, several readers expressed frustration at the current tax system and argued that we are essentially paying the same rate as what the Fair Tax would impose. That may be true, but I don’t understand how that merits scrapping the current system. If the Fair Tax does the exact same thing, why should switch? The tie goes toward stability, does it not? People have planned, not just in the short term, but in the long term for the tax benefits of the current system. Revolutionizing the way we tax would upset the expectations of a millions of Americans and businesses. Thus, doing something that drastic requires not just generalized frustration, but serious injustice. Generally, I think that frustration with the current tax system has made people over-eager to do something else. I don’t deny that the current system has its flaws. Indeed, it should be flatter and simpler. However, taking the extreme position of overhauling what we have and disturbing the expectations of those who are paying taxes seems unwise to me.

More rebuttals to come

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6 Comments:


For benefit of your readers, I posted a couple of explanatory comments at your last post. Here I'll layout the essentials. The FairTax is...

• SIMPLE, easy to understand
• EFFICIENT, inexpensive to comply with and doesn't cause less-than-optimal business decisions for tax minimization purposes
• FAIR, FLAT, and FAMILY FRIENDLY, loophole-free, and everyone pays their share
• LOW TAX RATE is achieved by broad base with no exclusions
• PREDICTABLE, doesn't change, so financial planning is possible
• UNINTRUSIVE, doesn't intrude into our personal affairs or limit our liberty
• VISIBLE, not hidden from the public in tax-inflated prices or otherwise
• PRODUCTIVE, rewards - rather than penalizes - work and productivity


A detailed benefits analysis of the plan (from The FairTax Book) explains such strong support:

For INDIVIDUALS:
• No more tax on income - make as much as you wish
• FairTax is paid on retail goods and services when purchased new, not used

• You receive your full paycheck - no more deductions
• Every household receives a monthly amount, or "prebate"
• "Prebate" is "advance tax payback" for monthly consumption to poverty level
• FairTax ensures poverty protection, being less regressive than income tax
• Increased household income preserves real purchasing power against any higher prices

• Reduction of pre-FairTaxed retail prices (due to reduced costs; increased competition)
• 29.9% mark-up yields 23% FairTax portion of new price tags
• FairTax portion of new prices reveal true cost of gov't to consumers

• FairTax is captured on illicit forms of income, when spent
• Parasitic income tax filing industry eliminated
• No double taxation on goods and services
No more IRS or FILING OF INCOME TAX returns
• Savings is bolstered with reduction of interest rates


For BUSINESSES:
• Corporate income and payroll taxes revoked under FairTax
• Business compensated for collecting tax at "cash register"
• No more tax-related lawyers, lobbyists on company payrolls
No more embedded (hidden) income/payroll taxes in prices
• Reduced costs. Competition - not tax policy - drives prices
• Off-shore "tax haven" headquarters can now return to U.S
No more "favors" from politicians at expense of taxpayers
• Resources go to R&D and study of competition - not taxes
• Global "free (and equitable) trade" becomes possible for currently-disadvanted U.S. exports
• U.S. exports increase their share of foreign markets


For the COUNTRY:
• 7% - 13% economic growth projected in the first year of the FairTax
Jobs return to the U.S.
• Foreign corporations "set up shop" in the U.S.
• Tax system trends are corrected to "enlarge the pie"
• Larger economic "pie," means thinner tax rate "slices"
• Initial 23% portion of price is pressured downward as "pie" increases
No more "closed door" tax deals by politicians and business
• FairTax sets new global standard. Other countries will follow


Mr. Romney's weak response to FairTax questioning on “This Week with Geo. Stephanopoulos” elevated his opponent who seems to understand the core problem. Understatedly, Mr. Huckabee quipped that what's wrong with the income tax can't be fixed with "a tap of the hammer, nor a twist of the screwdriver." But make no mistake, he's on to the bigger picture, and he pointedly understands the larger ramifications of how enacting the FairTax can course-correct global trade inequities.

While Mr. Romney clings to the destructive tax code, the IRS, preserving political power of granting tax favors at continued cost to - and misery of - American working families, his opponent speaks to Americans who have a terrible feeling that it is not only difficult to surmount increasing barriers to reach the next rung on the wealth ladder, but should they succeed, they'll need to spend an additional fortune to keep from having their hard-earned success confiscated by a government whose idea of "fairness" derives from Karl Marx's playbook (paraphrased), "From those according to their abundance, to those according to their need."



It seems like a flat tax produces much of the same pros that are mentioned by Ian, with less overhead.

Implementing and regulating the sales tax and it's refund system seems more complicated to me than something like a flat tax.

Now I don't think Romney is pushing for a tax overhaul, but a flat tax seems much more practical than a sales tax.

By the way. I grew up in Alberta Canada. When I was young, there was no sales tax. I liked that you could go up to the register and pay the amount that it was advertised for without having to add taxes in your head.

The conservative government then in 1991 reformed the tax system by replacing a 13.5% hidden Manufacturers' Sales Tax with a 7% visible Goods and Services Tax. Revenue neutral would have been a 9% sales tax.

So they lowered the tax but made it more visible (As a fair tax would do--I assume most people make more purchases than they get paychecks).

The next election they lost all but 2 of their 151 seats in parliament.

So even if Huckabee is able to get this implemented (There's no way in Hades it will be if Bush can't even get Social Security reform through), don't count on republican re-election the following election. In fact I think it is fair to say that if Huckabee were to pass this in his first term, he would not get the Republican nomination for re-election.



Ian, thank you for all that lovley propeganda. Quantity does not make up for lack of content. Just post a link the fairtax.org next time. I have seen your post on other sites. You guys sure do get out in force. This is not the only way to introduce a consumption tax, and Warren Buffetts political views arn't exacly conservative, and don't represent the views of most of the readers of MMM. I emplore you to read these.

http://thoughtfulideas.blogspot.com/2007/12/is-national-retail-sales-tax-good-idea.html

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110011009



Stephen, I don't really expect much from bloggers - and comments like yours don't surprise me. It's far easier to engage in Psychologist David Burn's Cognitive Distortion No. 6 - Minimzation / Magnification - than to actually engage on the specifics of points that I've taken great pains to learn about, research, and present to you for thoughtful consideration.



Kyle,
It's truly not just a matter of replacing one system for another. There are almost too many negatives in the current tax code to count. Regardless of personal or even public feelings about the current tax system, even the United States Government itself has come out and said that the current tax system is broken and is costing both the American Worker and it's government, huge amounts of money, lost jobs, etc. The minor tweaks that Mitt and others are proposing, however helpful over the next 4 to 8 years, are not going to fix the tax code enough to avoid financial train wreck we face in the next 20 to 30 years. The Current tax code needs to be eliminated and replaced, and to date the best option presented has been the Fair Tax. PLEASE, use this link and read this Very Well written article:
( http://www.realclearmarkets.com
/articles/2007/12/the_fair_tax_is
_about_economic.html )

Stephen, any time you have some facts or figures you'd like to have an honest conversation or debate about, I'm sure that Ian or I would gladly participate. I'm not above being proven wrong, but with the amount of research done by top economic scholars on the Fair Tax and it's figures, those who have legitimate beefs are very few, and very far between.



Romney said "Government is Broken!". Yet ignoring a system that would make a huge economic progression is hipocritical. I want to "fix" the gov't but I don't care about ideas that could easily do so, come on. I agree with everything else Romney says, but ignoring FairTax is ignoring the current economic situation.
Where's Regan? GOD BLESS AMERICA!

By Anonymous Anonymous, at April 3, 2008 at 11:04 AM  



Tuesday, December 18, 2007
posted by Kyle Hampton | 2:45 PM | permalink
I want to disclaim at the beginning that I am no tax policy expert. Yet, I think that the concepts argued for and against the “fair tax” as proposed by Mike Huckabee are simple enough that most people should be able to understand them.

Mike Huckabee describes on his campaign web site his version of the Fair Tax:
When the FairTax becomes law, it will be like waving a magic wand releasing us from pain and unfairness.

The FairTax will replace the Internal Revenue Code with a consumption tax, like the taxes on retail sales forty-five states and the District of Columbia have now. All of us will get a monthly rebate that will reimburse us for taxes on purchases up to the poverty line, so that we're not taxed on necessities. That means people below the poverty line won't be taxed at all. We'll be taxed on what we decide to buy, not what we happen to earn. We won't be taxed on what we choose to save or the interest those savings earn. The tax will apply only to new goods, so we can reduce our taxes further by buying a used car or computer.

Our current progressive tax system penalizes us for working harder and becoming more successful. As we climb the ladder, the government lurks on each rung, hungry for a bigger bite out of our earnings. The FairTax is also progressive, but it doesn't punish the American dream of success, or the old-fashioned virtues of hard work and thrift, it rewards and encourages them. The FairTax isn't intended to raise any more or less money for the federal government to spend - it is revenue neutral.
There are a lot of different points to be made. Easily dismissed is the claim that the Fair Tax will release us from pain and unfairness. Such a silly claim gets at the unseriousness of the Huckabee campaign in general. More substantively, only six countries have ever adopted retail sales taxes at rates of 10% or more; none do now. 58 Fla. L. Rev. 1043, 1048; Joel Slemrod, Presentation to the President's Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform: The Costs of Tax Complexity (Mar. 3, 2005), available at http://www.taxreformpanel.gov/meetings/ docs/slemrod 03032005.ppt.

Huckabee next says that all will get a monthly rebate for purchases up to the poverty line. This argues against one of the main points that he promotes in arguing for the Fair Tax: administrative ease. Huckabee has argued for abolishing the IRS, but it seems that he would have to replace it with some other agency by which to mail out every American’s monthly rebate check. The type of money being passed through the mail would also invite all sorts of criminal behavior (remember how well the debit cards went after Katrina?).

Huckebee also says that the Fair Tax will create positive incentives for saving. That is probably true. Through a combination of zero tax on savings and the dramatic increase of goods after the Fair Tax is enacted, people are likely to refrain from spending. The Fair Tax creates the incentive to withhold income from being put back into the economy. How this will affect the economy only an economist could predict, but the incentives seem to lead to a slowing of the economy as people withhold their dollars from the marketplace. However, eventually, even savings will be taxed as they are spent. The savings argument is misleading because it really only marks a delay in taxation, not an abolition of the tax on savings.

Huckabee argues that both taxes are progressive. However, the Fair Tax is difficult to make progressive. Since the tax applies to all at the point of sale, regardless of economic status, it would generally appear to be either a flat or regressive tax. The single rate of taxation on purchases hits low-income people harder than high-income people because the purchases are a larger proportion of the low-income person’s wealth. Higher income people are able to save a larger portion of their earnings. Thus, even with the rebates he proposes, for anyone above the poverty line, the tax is regressive. To make it progressive, Congress would have to add in additional complexity Graduated tax rates, differential rates, or higher rates all would lead to increasingly complex taxpayer behavior and legislative and administrative responses. 88 Calif. L. Rev. 2095, 2141.

In sum, and these certainly aren’t all the points to be made about the Fair Tax system, the Fair Tax likely does little to improve the current tax system and likely does harm. It does little to improve the complexity or administrative burden. It only shifts the time of taxation from when it was produced to when it was consumed. Finally, it likely dulls economic growth by creating a disincentive to spend.

Beyond its inherent political impracticability, the Fair Tax should be rejected. The better alternative, and the more realistic one, is the one Mitt Romney has proposed: lower marginal rates, end the death tax, end taxes on savings, and lower corporate taxes. These things combined will do more for the economy and the nation than the enactment of the Fair Tax.

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15 Comments:


Can you imagine the chaos visited on the economy if thie were implemented, either immediately, or gradually. Talk about a mess.



I used to be a supporter of the fair tax, but no more. The US economy will TANK with the fair tax. What will happen when everything we buy is increased by 30%?



To say no countries have a sales tax above 10% ignores the fact that the EU charges a 17% - 19% Value added Tax (VAT), which is essentially like a retail sales tax (Plus they have high income taxe!). So I would disagree with that statement, although if you examine the tax structure of Europe, you would clearly not want to adopt what they have.

Just thought I would point that out.



Thanks Kyle,
That certainly isn't a complete list but it isn't hard to see why only a candidate like Huck would adopt such an obviously flawed plan even when faults and shortcomings are so easy to find.
I would like to add that most of us remember from micro-economics 101, what sales taxes do. It keeps people who would otherwise enter the market out, both buyers and sellers. Gains from trade are unrealized. Plus it creates a huge incentive for black markets. These are not ways to stimulate the market, and keep America competitive with a growing Asian economy. I wish I had a whiteboard and 10 short minutes to show him. I guess that divinity school didn't offer advanced classes like that. My personal favorite way to streamline the tax code is a flat tax, but I'll save that for another day.
I hope he doesn't try the awe shucks I'm just a good ol' boy approach when he is pressed about this. Staying in a Holiday Inn Express isn't enough too fool the country.



This tax plan will create all kinds of political fights. What will the poverty level be? Who will determine it? Will there be annual adjustments to it like a cost of living increase? Are the monthly tax rebates to go to families or individuals? Do minors get a rebate on the taxes that they must pay? This will also cause a big dip in all sectors of the economy as people realize that they can save a huge amount by purchasing used items. This will have major ramifications for the auto and building industries. It will just be a matter of months after this tax in enacted before politicians try to get reductions or exemptions for industries that are having problems. This will be a nightmare.



I just thought that I would add this comment from David Frum at the National Post.
"The currently front-running candidate in Iowa, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, has built his campaign on a plan to abolish the Internal Revenue Service and replace the federal income tax with a national sales tax ... Economists and tax experts virtually unanimously agree that the plan is beyond unworkable -- that it is downright absurd."
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=169952

Amen!

Another worthy question is “how does the fair tax account for retirement accounts”. It seems like all the tax benefits vanish. Suddenly your 401k and IRA's are the same as any other savings account? That would really upset a huge percentage of the population, who historically are very good voters.



Are you aware we are more than double taxed on our dollar as our system stands right now? Do any of you run a business? If the government comes to you right now and tells you about a new corporate tax you now have to pay, where do you come up with the money to pay it? You get it from your customers. The consumer, who is paying for your service and your taxes from his after taxes dollar. That is double taxation!!!
Pass through all the taxes from a products consection, marketing and distribution and on average 22% of EVERYTHING we buy is taxes. And we pay that with our after taxes dollar. Can't you see that?

Why does the government have a need to know how much a citizen earns? These forms are intrusions into our lives. I want the government to leave me alone. I'll pay taxes, but let me have the final say on where my money goes.



Mike -

The stuff that I've read makes an explicit distinction between the VAT and a national retail sales tax. That's why I didn't include them in this. Otherwise I would agree. Check the citations for more information.



I am extremely skeptical of the promises made by the proponents of a national sales tax. A flat tax would be a much better and fairer system, but to get there without completely disrupting the economy, we would probably have to do it in steps. Step 1) Lower the rates and make them more equal. Then Step 2) Lower spending. Then Step 3) Repeat steps 1 & 2 over and over again. I figure that a President could achieve a flat tax somewhere near the end of his first term or beginning of his second term. Heck, Vladamir Putin did it in Russia and it's helped their economy.

Up-Chuck-abee argues that a national sales tax will somehow magically end America's shadow economy. Yeah right! It could easily make things worse though. In order to undercut the prices offered by America's legitimate businesses, a national sales tax could create a huge black market for "national sales tax-free" goods. Those tax cheat underground businesses could even charge more than businesses do today, because all that they've got to do is charge less than legitimate businesses for them to fulfill a need. Yes, the government could fine those businesses or send their owners to jail, but wouldn't that require even more elaborate enforcement and probably an even larger and more intrusive bureaucracy than we currently have with the IRS? What is going to stop people from ordering merchandise abroad in order to skate the rules or what will stop businesses from just going completely underground in order to avoid the taxes? How about smuggling? I’m sure that Mike Up-Chuck-abee with his great records on illegal immigration and fighting crime will make sure that we don’t have everything from kitchen sinks to contraband toys joining illegal drugs in its quest across our huge border with our southern 3rd world neighbor. A national sales tax might just be another scenario of hurting only the businesses who are willing to follow the rules (kind of like one of the main arguments against some gun laws).



Two issues concerning the Fair Tax. BTW, I actually see its potential since several of the issues you bring up are unproven and only a supposition of what might happen. The reason I say this, is because you ignore basic tenents of consumer behavior.

With that said however, my biggest concerns with the fair tax is the liklihood of the federal government to easily introduce it and than begin building on it so that we eventually resemble a western european nation with extremely high sales taxes as well as a high income tax on a Federal level.

The other concern is the ability to create an arbitrage market based on tax avoidance. Used goods are tax exempt in the Fair Tax system, so how difficult is it to take new goods, sell them for ridiculously low prices to a holding company that resells them for fair market value as tax exempt used goods.

Regarding European Sales Tax that statement about 10% is way off. Having lived the last 15 years in Europe the sales tax rates are much higher. In Sweden "moms" which is sales tax on all goods and services is generally at 25% with a few exceptions such as for books.



I actually like the fair tax and wish Romney would support it too. However there are many, many other reasons to support Romney over Huckabee. People are starting to notice Huckabee's flaws as the polls are indicating.



Kyle:

You are also not a tax expert. I suggest you stick to something you know as there is no merit to any of your comments. For instance, not a single prebate will be sent by check in the mail. Prebates will be distributed by either electronic transfers to a bank account or a special charge or debit card.



Dan Mastromarco did a great job of detailing the problems with a "flat" income tax, and how the FairTax would be superior, in rebutting an older Bruce Bartlett objection (which was resurrected for Bartlett's more recent diatribes - adequately rebuked - at WSJ, OpinionJournal, and The new Republic Online). For easier reading, and emphasis, I've paraphrased his 1999 reply to Bartlett following.

(Paraphrased) Reply by Dan R Mastromarco (LL.M., Taxation, Georgetown, principal in the Argus Group, adjunct professor at the University of Maryland, International Management Program, and research consultant to Americans for Fair Taxation - FairTax.org) to:

"A National Sales Tax Doesn’t Add Up" by Bruce Bartlett, December 29, 1999

Many engaged in true tax reform find Bartlett-type attacks exasperating, if not embarrassing. I'd like to convey perspective of both flat taxers and sales taxers who believe that such attacks are counterproductive, but first provide some political history by which to frame said perspectives.

For years Conservatives have posited that a VAT is bad policy (when liberals were discussing it), fearing it would become additional to an income tax (it was called a "money machine"). Circa 1980, conservative intellectuals touted Hall-Rabushka "subtraction method"[ H-R ] VAT which taxed business value added at the business side and labor value added at the labor side. Unlike European VATs (identical in scope), H-R became favorite of Dick Armey and Steve Forbes. It eliminated steeply progressive tax rates and tax on savings. Because of the prior VAT criticisms, H-R was packaged as the "flat tax" and is sold as an income tax to this day, rather than the VAT that its DNA characterizes it as being.

Some conservative commentators have called for the repeal of the 16th Amendment and for the adoption of the flat tax, (despite the fact that it is styled as a direct tax and could not be adopted with such repeal). Mr. Bartlett has called the national sales tax [ie, the FairTax] a VAT (which it isn't), castigated VATs as evil, and has said that sales taxes have become VATs in Europe (which they didn't). In the next breath, he "throws his arms around" the flat tax (which is a VAT). He quotes Bill Gale that the [FairTax] would have to be imposed at 60 percent, but glaringly fails to recognize that if the two bases are the same, he would have to impose that rate for the flat tax to be revenue neutral. In truth, all economists know that the two plans differ NOT in economic effect or base, but in administration.

An income tax taxes savings and investment multiple times. Both flat tax and FairTax are neutral as to savings and investment, tax income only once, and are both consumption taxes. Both are single rate taxes, have nearly the same base, and would improve the U.S. standard of living. Neither redistributes wealth.

While some have even suggested that hey are the same plans under different names, the flat tax taxes value added at each stage in the production process, but the FairTax prefers to tax it when it is added up at the end and eliminate the need to make everyone a taxpayer and collector.

Substantive commonalities between the flat tax and FairTax doesn't mean that there are NO key political and policy distinctions that could be exploited in pitting one against the other. If FairTax supporters wanted to retaliate in response to the Bartlett-type critique, they would have much material with which to honestly do so:

• The flat tax will make small firms and farmers pay the tax even if they have no profit
• The flat tax is opposed by many small business groups
• The flat taxers implicitly support big government by disguising even more of the overall tax burden as the current law
• The flat tax has been kicking around for nearly 20 years
• The flat tax makes everyone a taxpayer and collector, while the FairTax exempts 115 million filers [2000 figure] from ever having to deal with the IRS
• The flat tax is regressive, but the FairTax would enable everyone to keep his full paycheck.
• The flat tax has not only stalled, it has lost public and Congressional support.
• The FairTax is instantly understood, while even some proponents of the flat tax don’t understand it
• There are no transition rules developed for the flat tax and they would be very difficult to craft
• The flat tax taxes exports and relieves imports from tax
• The flat tax confuses tax reform with temporary tax reduction and makes both twice as hard
• The flat tax retains the entire income tax apparatus which erodes as quickly as you can say, “tax bill”


FairTaxers could advance these truthful points without resorting to bigotry associated with a cultic religious organization. However, for the most part, FairTax supporters have chosen not to attack the flat tax, but rather accentuate the commonalities between the plans - despite the above-noted differences. The reason is that, in the battle for tax reform, the real enemy is our current system.

Income tax advocates look down upon the articles of Bruce Bartlett with smug chortling, as Bruce is doing their work for them. The IRS and the liberals who want an income tax to ensure (1) taxes can be raised without the American people knowing it, and (2) wealth can be redistributed from the middle class to the poor, do not even need to fight us - we're killing ourselves!

Perhaps Mr. Bartlett believes that the flat tax will help elect Republicans, effect tax reform, and provide tax cuts; however, the real effect of his criticism is to divide conservatives, to delay serious national consideration of tax reform, and to fertilize the roots of the income tax.

( Source - Addit'l at FairTax.org Whitepaper - May republish in whole or part. - Ian)



I hate to sound rude, but it seems no one, with the exception if Ian, has =any idea= what they are talking about.

And, I think it was very irresponsible for major candidates, with the exception of Huckabee, to not familiarize themselves with the FairTax. When Romney is attacking Huckabee and the FairTax, he has no idea what he's talking about. Do you still think Romney -- a guy doing a "half-fast" job -- is not going to do a "half-fast" job if elected? The evidence points that way.

And, by the way, there've been a number of presidents without foreign policy experience, who've done a fine job in that area. Thus, I reject your assertions, otherwise.



Mitt's alright, but since he's run a business he, of all people, should know how much the FairTax will help the country. Most importantly the poor and middle class...oh..or maybe that's the problem. The people that the Fairtax seems most threatening to are the "super wealthy", "Politicians" and "Big Business" who can game the current system for tax breaks. I forgot that Mitt get's alot of support from those groups, so maybe he does really know what effects the Fair Tax would have on the economy...hmmmm.
I most love hearing people sound educated when trying to trash the Fair Tax, but clearly, for those who are educated on the plan, they present themselves as absolutely and utterly ignorant.
There are over 75 WELL renowned economists who support the Fair Tax and millions of dollars of research and running numbers to make sure the calculations are as correct as humanly possible. Here check out the list:
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/Open_Letter.pdf




Monday, December 10, 2007
posted by Kyle Hampton | 4:48 PM | permalink
I think that the fair tax is a pie-in-the-sky idea. Generally, I think that the idea of getting the tax code simpler and flatter is a good idea. However, I don't see how the fair tax accomplishes that. When pressed on the specifics of how it would affect low income Americans or other special interests who now pay no taxes, they talk about prebates. Once we've gotten to that point, however, there is little stopping the government from recreating any or all the tax exemptions now currently in the tax code. Thus, we have done little to affect who is paying taxes, but only shifted how they pay it. How that helps the tax situation is beyond me.

Proponents also argue that the national sales tax would help tax black market activities. James Taranto over at Opinion Journal looks further into this claim:
"Ask Mike Huckabee about his tax plan and he'll talk about pimps and prostitutes," the Concord (N.H.) Monitor reports. Not a bad lead. The story continues:

The Republican presidential candidate often says that one of the selling points of his plan to replace the federal income tax with a 23 percent sales tax is that it would force those who deal in cash to pay taxes.

"You end the underground economy," Huckabee said at a recent luncheon for the Greater Concord Chamber of Commerce. "Illegals, prostitutes, pimps, gamblers, drug dealers--everybody pays taxes."

Huh? Does Huckabee really think prostitutes are going to collect sales taxes and pass them on to the government? Apparently not:

William Ahern, spokesman for The Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group in Washington, D.C., said even Huckabee's claim about pimps and prostitutes isn't true.

"Say (a drug dealer) spends $100,000 on a tricked-out Hummer," Ahern said. "Instead of just paying the local car tax or sales tax, he would be paying, according to the Fair Tax, the full 23 percent (tax).

"But he won't be collecting the Fair Tax on his sale of drugs," Ahern added. "You and me, the two secret heroin addicts who are pouring our wages into the coffers of this drug dealer instead of making mortgage payments . . . we avoid paying the Fair Tax by buying heroin instead of taxable goods."

To put it another way, under Huckabee's plan, johns and drug addicts would pay for sex and drugs with pretax income.

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The other, and I think more compelling argument, is that rather than end the underground economy, the "fair tax" would actually create a black market for everyday goods such as one never before conceived. When everyday products are tagged with a 30% premium by way of a national sales tax, widespread smuggling and black market transactions will result almost immediately. People who want to WILL find a way to get cheap goods without paying the tax. Those that dodge income taxes now WILL find ways to buy products on the black market for far less than they can pay at legitimate retailers. NOt only will such a black market become a fiscal drain, it will pose a potential public safety hazard to consumers who buy goods on the black market from unaccountable suppliers who hold no regard for product safety / liability concerns.

The fair tax is a volatile, risky, unrealistic dream and is a complete non-starter. Huckabee is selling a horrible bill of goods simply because its false promises appeal to just about everyone who doesn't like to pay taxes and is not well educated on fiscal policy (which happens to be a majority of American citizens)



It should always be mentioned that the 23% sales tax is inclusive. Or, in other words, it's actually a 30% sales tax the way most people think of it.

A $1.00 item will be taxed an additional $0.30. However, $0.30 is only 23% of $1.30, hence the more appealing number cited.



What happened to the actual "Flat Tax"? It's simple, and fair. And you don't have to get rid of the IRS.



I think the point of the "pimp, prostitute" example was that it would force them to pay taxes when they spent their money. Right now they totally avoid taxes by not declaring income.

However, the potential to create a bigger black market in the USA is huge. The incentive to do so is increased dramatically as under-the-table deals will now result in 300-400% increased tax evasion.

So prostitutes have to pay some taxes and black market problems spike. Great plan.

Devon: Your point is right on. Saying 23% gives everyone the wrong impression.



As I've said before, the Fair Tax is very, very unfair to people who have saved throughout their working years in anticipation of spending in their "golden years." The Fair Tax takes money that they've already paid income tax on and makes them pay "Fair Tax" on it when they spend it.

Do we really want to penalize savers?

I think that the Fair Tax is intended to ENCOURAGE savings (people will think twice about discretionary spending if they have a 23%-or 30% as stated above-Federal sales tax), but it sure starts off on the wrong foot.



Generally speaking I am ifavor of concepts like the fair tax. One thing no one has brought up is the impact that implimenting a 30% increase on all goods will have on the economy. The biggest reason it will never be implimented is that the politicians know that we will plunge into a recession if it is.



On average, each $1 you spend on goods in the United States has $0.22 of embedded tax. Think about it. Corporations have to pay 35% tax on every dollar they earn, in addition to social security, Medicare, and payroll taxes for each dollar they pay you. When the fair tax is passed, $1 goods will drop to $0.78, and then add the 30% tax, and you get $1.01 in today's dollars. Not much for Americans to pay considering they spend 6 billion hours a year filling tax returns (not to mention we pay the IRS $10 billion to keep an eye on us)



Perhaps the easiest way to make sure everyone is getting taxed, is to tax real estate. Everyone lives somewhere, right? If all property gets a federal tax hike, it's pretty difficult to avoid the taxman. However, a property tax then provides an incentive to people to not own US real estate, which would totally trash the real estate industry.

I think the only "Fair" thing to say about taxes is that there are no easy answers. Mike Huckabee spouting the "Fair Tax" as a panacea/great alternative to what we've got now is one more piece of evidence that he's a lightweight who doesn't have serious proposals to offer.



The black market issue is real. The internet will be the channel. People will begin buying EVERYTHING on-line to avoid the tax. This will require the Fed to monitor the net like never before to get those nasty tax evaders. Despite any such monitoring, people will be able to buy merchandise from companies in countries that won't allow our government to scrutinize their books. Not only will this kill tax generation, but it will force American companies to fight at a bigger disadvantage (23% bigger), causing more and more business to leave the USA. The lack of tax generation may require us to raise the rate only increasing the incentive for evasion. The IRS is a patsy compared to what the "fair tax" would require.

For this reason alone the fair tax idea should be laughed off stage.

That said, I think the fair tax has at least two or three more pressing deficiencies than the black market effect. The whole idea is lunacy.



Everyone remember that the fairtax would only tax new goods. That might hinder the relevance of a black market. As far as the effect on the economy, how many major corporations have left the US because of the tax penalties encountered due to their success. Relieving some tax burden would encourage corporations to stay in and/or return to the US.

Who cares if the IRS is abolished, I haven't seen too many people who have been audited with big smiles on their faces.
To the person stating this would hurt savers... I saved by putting money into my 401K for 5 years, at which point I found myself needing an engagement ring. I owed 40% of the money I put in the 401k to taxes. That is not what I would call fair.

Taxes caused this country to be created, when in the 1700's England thought they knew better how to spend our money than we did. This country can't continue to stand with the taxes as they are today.




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